Books about Caerhun Fort

Reading About Caerhun Fort and Other Roman Sites in Wales - Visit A Museum

Books about archaeology have always been difficult for the layman to access, many are rare and certainly old, sometimes the books themselves become ‘collectables’ sold on their age and rarity value. The book above is the classic study of the Kanovium Roman fort, published in 1938, and was the culmination of four summers of excavation at Caerhun by P.K. Baillie Reynolds of Aberystwyth University. Owning my own copy was certainly a milestone in my early interest in Roman Wales, though now I feel the book’s opinions is are very dated, a great deal of new military information has been discovered since 1938, views have changed, and new theories develop, in particular some of the fort ground plans seem a little bit simplistic in comparison to examples done in the 1990’s.

Also worth studying is ‘The Roman Frontier in Wales’, Updated in 1969 by M.G. Jarrett, in the second published version, Jarrett considered some of Nash Williams’ sites as not of a military nature, and therefore not suitable material, therefore several sites are omitted, one in particular being a site near to Caerhun, the industrial site at Prestatyn. The book remains the only complete study of the Roman army in Wales, and it seems doubtful or indeed even impossible that a study of this magnitude will be done again in the conceivable future. I recently talked with a contributor to the 1969 version, Bill Putnam, I asked him the likelihood of there ever be a third printing of the book, and I quote his reply ‘ New editions of books like RFW and Margary's Roman Roads are very unlikely. People specialize so much nowadays, and no one wants to take the broad view’. The book covers the background to the conquest, the legions and cohorts involved, and a study of each fort in the chain, using the knowledge available in 1969. Including detailed sections on all the inner fort buildings, gates, and a large bibliography, the book is essential reading. It has become in recent years something of a collectors item in its own right, and can be purchased from many antiquarian bookshops online for up to £70. The cover features the emblems of the two legions involved in the conquest, a boar for legio XX, and a capricorn for legio II augusta. Baillie Reynolds' book is equally collectable and commands a price of £30-£50, featuring many black and white images of Kanovium early last century.

Many libraries hold copies of both these books, Which could be a better idea than actually attempting to own them. The British Library also stock copies of both but it is unlikely you will be allowed to remove copies from the actual library that deals with your request. The Roman Frontier in Wales, 1954 & 1969 versions are to be found at Colwyn Bay and Rhyl Libraries, while also stocking J.P. Hall’s Caer Llugwy and Gardner’s Pen y Corddyn Mawr, appear illusive regarding P.K. Baillie Reynolds’ Kanovium. Llandudno Library previously owned two copies of Kanovium, but seem temporarily lost at the moment, it does however stock the excavation reports of Kanovium in their original pamphlet forms, which do feature some different text and images from the 1938 final amalgamated version.

Excavations on the site of the Roman Fort of Kanovium, at Caerhun, Caenarfonshire Kanovium Excavation Committee and P.K. Baillie Reynolds, Cardiff 1938

The Roman Frontier in Wales edition one V.E. Nash Williams, Cardiff 1954

The Roman Frontier in Wales edition two M.G. Jarrett, Cardiff 1969

Conquest, Co-existence and Change, Recent Work in Roman Wales Barry Burnham and Jeffrey L. Davies (eds) Lampeter, Trivium 25 1991

Caer Llugwy: excavation of the Roman fort between Capel Curig and Bettws-y-Coed J.P. Hall Manchester 1923

Segontium and the Roman occupation of Wales. R.E.M Wheeler, Y Cymroeddr 33 (1923); issued separately 1924

Roman Wales A Pocket Guide William Manning, Cardiff 2001

The Roman Roads of North Wales: Recent Discoveries, Edmund Waddelove, private publishing 2000

Excavations at Segontium (Caernarfon) Roman Fort 1975-1979, P.J Casey and J.L Davies London, CFBA, 1993

The Legionary Fortress of Caerleon-Isca George C. Boon, Cardiff; National Museum of Wales, 1987

Caerleon and the Roman Army Cardiff, National Museum and Galleries of Wales, 2001

Caerleon Roman Fortress Cardiff: J.K. Knight, Cadw/Welsh Historic Monuments, 1994

Roman Britain, Peter Salway Oxford University Press, 1993

A Companion to Roman Britain Guy De La Bedoyere, Tempus 1999

The Archaeology of Clwyd John Manley, S Grenter, and F. Gale, Mold; Clwyd County Council 1991

Roman Forts in Britain Paul Bidwell English Heritage 1997

The Romans in Scotland Gordon .S. Maxwell Edinburgh 1989

A Guide to the Roman Remains in Britain Roger J.A. Wilson Constable 1992

Epitome of Military Science Vegetius, N.P. Milner Liverpool 1996

The Roman Imperial Army Graham Webster 3rd edition London 1985

Roman Military Equipment Bishop and Coulston Shire Archaeology 1989

Samian Ware Guy De La Bedoyere Shire Archaeology 1988

Roman Coinage in Britain P.J. Casey Shire Archaeology 1980

The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire Edward Luttwak John Hopkins 1976

Museums Displaying Material From Caerhun and Other Local Romano-British Settlements

British Museum Russell Square, Bloomsbury, London W1
The British Museum displays the Hadrianic milestone, with the Kanovio inscription, RIB 2265 found close to the Roman road, Itinerary XI (11), west of the Bwlch y Ddeufaen pass. Situated at the south plinth of the new Roman Britain, Weston Gallery, which is left up the stairs at the main entrance, through a gallery of tribal art, then through a gallery showing Anglo Saxon antiquities, pass the area of the display of the Sutton Hoo, and the milestone is the first exhibit to be seen on the left on entering the gallery The amazing display of priceless artifacts recovered over many centuries need not be mentioned but visitors struck with an interest in the Roman army should not miss the numerous examples of military equiptment, most from the River Thames, but also the cavalry face helmet from Ribchester, Lancs.
Llandudno Museum, 17-19 Gloddaeth Street, Llandudnno, Conwy.
The owners of Caerhun fort during the 1920’S, Mrs and Captain Gough, stipulated that all relics uncovered during the excavations must be housed as closely as possible to the site, and that the museum must also be affiliated to the National Museum of Wales. North Wales is not rich in museums, indeed the Flintshire area between the River Conwy and Chester has none, therefore all the counties heritage goes unseen, and that includes much Roman material from the Prestatyn site, the Moel Hiraddug Iron age hoard, and numerous sundry prehistoric hoards. It was decided that Kanovium’s hardware should be housed at the Rapallo House Museum in Llandudno, which had the neccessary affiliation, during the 1990’s the museum moved to the present site in Gloddaeth Street and changed its name.
The museum’s Roman room in the main displays the items shown in the Kanovium site report, which unlike Caernarvon are not especially interesting or rich. But a visit to the museum before visiting the remains of the fort is a useful insight into the Roman activity at Caerhun. Baillie Reynolds found about 30 coins mostly of the period A.D 65-117 (which were not on display last time I visited) the museum suffered collection destroying floods in the mid 90’s as a result the building had a much required re-vamp, but with the result the more familiar old style museum was lost to the new style of big information boards and a lack of real artefacts. But on display was the stone carved head from the Headquarters building, the silver spoon and key from the foodstore building, the tile with child’s footprint (probably made at Holt-on-Dee) the piece of a stone game board found in the commanders house, numerous ‘melon beads’ and counters of glass, a curious lock knife which though down as Roman in Baillie Reynold’s book is clearly not. Sadly missing were two complete samian vessels, a cup found in a barrack block fire place, and a Dragendorff 37 bowl found close to the post medieval farmstead at the south west corner (moved for conservation) Splendidly present however is the large Spanish amphora, reconstructed by Nash Williams, found in the remains of a burnt timber builder of the first fort.

Prior to the floods I visited the museum, though underfunded there was more on display, including a diorama of the fort showing how it would have looked originally, the palisade stake found in the well of the south intervallum, the coins presumably must also have been removed for conservation. This was several years ago, so maybe the museum works on a rotary system. Also on display is the 16th century buckler (small shield, shown on the museum advert above) thought to be Roman for many years it was found at Kanovium baths probably around the time of Samuel Lysons’ excavation of the late 18th century, believed to be made locally in North East Wales it is contemporary with some features of the church.
Before the floods the museum also displayed other local Roman finds, and prehistoric material. A private collection of the late F.E. Chardon, the museum has an important collection of paintings and ‘objects d’ art’ of many periods collected from all over the world, which has been donated to the people of Llandudno.

Segontium Roman Fort Museum Beddgelert Road, A4085, Caernarvon
The auxiliary fort of Caernarvon has provided us with a much richer assortment of artifacts than Kanovium, due not only to the fact it was part of Mortimer Wheeler’s career path, and the fact that excavations have continued there in some form or other at different times of the 20th century, but also because it was garrisoned longer, at least at a higher strength The outlines of several phases of the fort are superimposed today, hence are not amazingly clear to the eye of a novice. The food store is 2nd century, while a small hypocausted room adjacent to the 4th century principia (headquarters) building is a 3rd century survival. So while you are not actually seeing a Roman fort as it was originally constructed, in difference to the forts on Hadrian’s Wall which were stripped of all later Roman redevelopment by Victorian antiquaries who only wished to view a ‘pure’ fort. It is however thought to represent the 3rd or 4th best preserved Roman fort in Britain, presumably following Hadrian’s Wall and Hardknott in the Eskdale valley, and remains of it’s south curtain wall and rounded corner, underground strong room at the HQ, paving and well of the praetorium, and it’s blocked late gates are definitely worth a visit.

Also on site is a compact site museum which houses the finds of Mortimer Wheelers early 20’s excavation, amd there are many vivid examples of Roman life in Caernarvon from the 1st to 4th centuries AD. These include many coins, weapons, horse harness, ephigraphy from the site, and milestones from the area, much Samian and coarse pottery, glass, leather goods such as shoes and tent fragments, most of note is the rare Severan aqueduct inscription, a massive gold 4th century ‘crossbow brooch’ a copy of the 2nd century ‘gladius’ found at the site, and an inscribed gold talisman bearing a Gnostic script. Also some objects from the fort vicus, which contained a fort Mithraeum which has now been lost to housing development.

The museum also displays a full sized reconstruction of an auxiliary infantry soldier, this was the work of the late H.R. Russell Robinson, one time chief armourer at the Tower of London, and pioneer Roman military equipment recreator. While some items of the kit are inevitably out dated it gives a good impression of the type of soldier used to garrison these small forts during the late 1st century AD.

Another Roman site can be seen if you descend the hill east toward the harbour, this is ‘Hen Waliau’ or the ‘Old Walls’ once thought to be another fort, its very large walls, several metres high are of similar construction to Segontium’s curtain, and feature the same ‘put log holes’, it is now thought to date to the late 3rd century and be a naval supply depot in the manner of the Saxon Shore forts on the south coast of England. On private land (actually the walls are now used as garden boundaries) viewable from modern roads.

Museum of Welsh Antiquities Ffordd Gwynedd Bangor
Another museum to have a revamp with the associated depletion of interesting ancient things, in this case case much Bronze age material from Anglesey, the Bangor Museum is still very worthy of a visit. The Roman interest here chiefly lies in the fine ivory handled gladius, the Roman short sword, found early in the 19th century near the fort of Segontium at Caernarfon. In very good order, a chat to the curator informing me that it was probably their premier exhibit, the sword has remains of the iron scabbard adhering to the blade, and it’s complete ivory handle shows a glued stress repair to the hand guard. This, from experience is exactly the place another weapon would do damage to the sword, though this sword is very different indeed from the stereotyped examples seen in the re-enactment field. Also on display are several items from Bryn y Gefeiliau fort at Capel Curig (the curator informed me they had much more but not on display) and includes the fine amphora possibly originally from Spain’s Costa Dorada area, found in the annex mansio building,which is very similar to the amphora found at Caerhun Fort, and a few pieces of a glass strap handled bottle, melon beads, gaming counters, lead dross, and a neat incense pot.

Also to be seen are other local Roman finds, a few bits of Romano British material found at local hillforts, coins from Braich y Dinas at Penmaenmawr, the Colchester type fibula found on the river bank close to Caerhun fort. Examples from the Abergele paterae hoard, a camp eating vessel, and a wine strainer. Bangor also features the two milestones found north of Llanfairfechan, the twin to the example in the British Museum, RIB 2266, (currently on loan from the British Museum) which is curiously anciently truncated, and a 3rd century example from Rhiwiau Uchaf which along with these other two stood on the Caerhun-Caernarvon road. Also featured is a reproduction of the British Museum’s RIB 2265, in a reduced size which only displays the inscription, it is painted black with lettering picked out in red, which cannot have aided the night journey via the Carneddau mountains, unless the person actually walked into the milestone.

As well as a few casual local Roman finds on display, also to be seen are objects of everyday local Welsh life, dating from the post medieval period. These exhibits are interesting, persons should check out the Buckley Ware on display to understand what is not a piece of Roman ceramic but occurs predictably at most areas of ground disturbance in North Wales, including Roman sites.

Image the property and copyright of Llandudno Museum.

Kanovium Project Book Review

The River Conway, Wilson Mac-Arthur, Cassell, 1952.

Kanovium and the Conwy Valley are intrinsicaly linked, and I feel it desirable to feature other elements of the area, which may or may not have Roman links, for instance the river crossing at Tal-y-Cafn, which is coming soon, or more closer to home, St Mary’s Church which actually sits within the Roman fort, so it was with interest that I was able to review the above book. It touches on many Roman influences within the Conwy Valley, and indeed Llandudno and the Great Orme, all of which certainly were a factor in the fairly lengthy (if not high capacity) time Kanovium auxiliary fort was occupied. However it must be stressed at this point that, though the author is certainly enthusiastic about our historical heritage, and occasionaly correct, he is also prone to flights of romantic fantasy, and I have picked out many errors regarding the Roman influence in the Conwy Valley, so it is with caution that I digested his descriptions of later historical events, as my knowledge/interest, at least to a technical level, does not extend into the Medieval period. It was suggested by a contributor to this website that due to the many inaccuracies (many of which are still perpetuated in print by modern authors) that the book was not really suitable for inclusion in a website that has gained a reputation for both honesty and accuracy ; I disagree, the book is a charming study of North Wales during 1952, though it becomes glaring obvious that a writer should steer well clear of topics beyond their knowledge. Full of references to Roman bridges, wells, mines, healing spas, battle sites, and personalities, it is in variance to our approach, in that its sites and locations are only definitely ‘Roman’ if scientifically excavated, and that this is indicated so in published form. P.K. Baillie Reynolds 1938 Kanovium Excavation Report, and Nash Williams’ 1952 Roman Frontier in Wales are glowing examples of sticking to the known facts, while the above book is in quite the opposite direction. All this aside the book is worthy of mention as not only does it describe a Conwy Valley largely unchanged from Victorian times, it also features several pages describing the fort at Caerhun, and also wider Roman activities in the Conwy area

Wilson Mac-Arthur and his rather attractive wife, Joan, visit the Conwy Valley during 1952, with the intent of doing a grand tour of the river from its source at Llyn Conwy, north of Penmachno, to the estuary at Conwy a distance of thirty miles. The book appears part of a series featuring other British rivers, the Hampshire Avon, the Fowey, and the Windrush, though the author(s) are not specified. The writing style is at once grandious, though eloquent, it attempts to convey some marvellous romantic achievement that it would be to undertake this tour. Something like reaching the source of the Nile, it is conveyed that they will be meeting the natives of the Valley (though they express dislike of the already present English immigrants from Manchester and Liverpool who are developing old houses into holiday cottages) and that these people will be both quaint and friendly. Indeed the opening chapter describing their approach to the Conwy’s headwaters by bus openly declares that most of the locals on the bus are not only aware of their proposed grand tour of the River Conwy, that they are even impressed! The book is illustrated with black and white high quality images, most featuring the afore mentioned attractive Joan, who is seen doing all manner of ‘proper’ 1950’s domestic chores along side their tent. Wilson Mac-Arthur is always unseen, neither do we know their home location, presumably using a camera was mans work in those days, though he hilarious describes how vehicles being few in those days lifts were hard to come by, though Joan did rather better when on her own! I digress..what did he have to say about Kanovium? Having reached Caerhun several weeks later after being shouted at by gamekeepers, kept awake by fledgling bikers on Triumphs and B.S.As at Betws-y-Coed and had his wife flirted with by car owners (some ancient in vintage cars) after visiting Maenan Abbey they shortly arrive as if by magic at the gates to Caerhun Hall, and I quote.

'We stopped, one afternoon, at the gates of Caerhun Hall. Here, we had been told, were relics of Roman Britain that we should not miss. Without the faintest inkling of the delight in store for us we opened the gates and went in. There was no one about at the lodge and I walked boldly up the drive, admiring already the beautifully laid-out grounds, the handsome trees and exotic plants and flowering shrubs, and then the Hall itself, a long graceful structure with tall gables and great handsome windows shining in the sun.
I rang the bell. There was an appreciable pause ; then the door opened and a smiling face looked welcoming inquiry.
'' My wife and I,'' I began, ''are walking down the Conway. We wondered if-''
''Come in !'' she cried. ''Doctor Kenrick will be delighted. Where's your wife ? Won't you bring her in ?''

While it is certainly flowerly romantic, we must remember it is the mid 20th century, the British people in those times, be they working class or middle class, as Mac-Arthur and his wife obviously are, were very old fashioned, many British customs being survivals from Victorian or even a much older time, so we must forgive them for the writing style. Readers of Enid Blytons’ Famous Five series will be familiar with the tone, we can almost imagine Mac-Arthur asking for Ginger Beer and Scones. He then goes into some detail on the then owner of the Hall, which is certainly interesting reading, as the Hall and St Mary’s Church are considered within the subjects dealt with in this website. The owner Dr. G.H.B Kenrick K.C LID had retired to Caerhun Hall after retiring from a fairly distinguished career in India, were he had seen seven years service on the Viceroy’s Legislative Council, while also being a lawyer, he was also something of an amateur archaeologist. Mac-Arthur describing him as from an ‘ancient Welsh family’ lists his earlier activities as follows, I quote.

He had been responsible for much exploration and excavation of Roman remains in the area, and as well as other and later archaeological work, and when he had nearly exhausted the possibilities of Maenan and had acquired the mansion of Caerhun he sold Maenan for a song and moved across the river to devote himself to the Roman period.

He eventually gets to the Roman fort, but before he goes into more detail about the Hall and its former owners of definite interest here is the Gough family mention though P.K. Baillie Reynolds indicates he was not a general, but a captain, either way this was the family the allowed the Roman fort to be excavated from 1926-9 -

In 1723 the last member of the ancient Welsh family which owned Caerhun died and was buried in the church-yard ; there is a memorial to him in the church The Hall was rebuilt in 1895 by General Gough, a cousin of General Sir Hubert Gough......

Finally we get some information regarding the fort.

Conovium stood where now is the little church, just outside the grounds of Caerhun Hall, and two square-walled sepulchers containing human bones have been dug up there, as well as an urn with the calcinated bones of a female.

He seems to have not read the 1938 Excavation Report, or indeed the paper by the excavator of the ‘sepulchres’ Samuel Lyson, or he would have known that he was referring to the twin guard towers of north gate of the Roman fort, I have no knowledge or information regarding the urn containing a burial, though he was correct about the sundry bones.

The Tenth Legion under Ostorius had its headquarters here and several bricks have been discovered with the inscription, Leg. X. In 1801 the foundations of a Roman villa were unearthed, with five rooms in front, and a cake of copper from Snowdon ore yielded further information.
Ostorius invaded Wales in A.D. 50, but Caerhun also has associations with a later conqueror, Septimius Severus, a Berber general from Leptis Magna in Tripolitania and....He was in Wales in A.D. 208 or 209.....
Included in many valuable finds at Caerhun are some stone pillars from the hypocaust or furnace and hollow tiles of local clay-tubular fireclay tiles of a good red colour.

Here Mac-Arthur is losing track, how he came to these conclusions amazes me, though they are still perpetuated today and are all a fantasy. It would certainly be very nice if Kanovium had been the base for Ostorius Scapula, the A.D. 75-8 timber fort of Kanovium may have had very slight traces beneath it which may represent an earlier short occupation, Baillie-Reynolds believed this to represent occupation only while building the timber fort. But we have absolutely no proof that Kanovium was a fort during A.D 48 (A.D 50 is also wrong) when Scapula attacked Flintshire and Denbighshire as we have no information that he crossed the Conwy, as Tacitus informs us ‘Scapula caused mass destruction of the De cangi tribe and took much booty, he had reached the sea facing Ireland when forced to withdraw following a revolt of the Brigantes’ a powerful and warlike confederation of Britons from Yorkshire. So it seems likely he had reached Rhyl or Colwyn Bay, and not advanced as far as the Conwy Valley when forced to retreat north. There is also another story that Kanovium was established by Suetonius Paullinus on route to smashing the Druids in A.D.61, again, nice, but no facts to back it up.

He is wrong in attributing the bricks to a Tenth Legion, no tenth legion are known to have served in Britain at this time, as what he actually viewed was broken tiles which only had partial stamps remaining, what he should have read is LEGIO XX VV. The stamp translates to the Twentieth Legion Valiant and Victorious, for most of Kanovium’s active life it was managed by the local legion, the 20th at Deva, Chester, 45 miles east. Baillie-Reynolds also located these tiles and are correctly described in the Excavation Report. He describes the bath-house wrongly as a villa, though he is correct in his description of the copper cake being found, though wrongly calls it ‘Snowdon ore’ are is is now known it came from the Great Orme Copper Mines, and is similar to ones found at Colwyn Bay, Anglesey and on Halkyn Mountain, Flintshire. Today it is in Llandudno Museum.

To say Kanovium has links with Septimius Severus is absurd, it is purely on the strength of the milestone found near Llanfairfechan which bears Severus’ name, I have heard such preposterous claims being made regarding the Hadrianic milestone found close by too, how could anyone possibly imagine the Emperors had time (or inclination) to go round all the milestones in the Empire, cutting a ribbon once a milestone had been erected. His description of the pilae and flue tiles from the baths are obviously correct, though he is dreaming again when he describes them as local clay. They likely came from the legionary tile works at Holt-on-Dee near Chester. We have no evidence for ceramic manufacture at Caerhun, though it has been noted near the fort of Tomen-y-Mur, near Pen-yr-Stryt, the street being the Roman road of Sarn Helen. Mac-Arthur correctly notes that the name Conovium originates from the River name Con-wy - the ‘head waters’ but wrongly calls the place a Roman City as Caer Hen translates to ‘old town’ the Welsh translation reflecting the extent of possible Roman settlement visible around the fort. Finally Mac-Arthur loses interest in the Roman remains and quite literally claims, I quote -

But it was not the antiquities of Caerhun that fascinated us ; and however dutifully the four of us would try to keep the conversation upon matters that concerned the River Conway it would dart away ; for there were many talks.

So Caerhun is left behind, whence they turn their attentions to the Medieval town of Conwy, suprisingly he correctly attributes dark age occupation to the hillfort on Conwy Mountain, Caer Lleon, and also to the similar age site over the river at Deganwy, though regarding Deganwy Castle he goes widely astray once more and says thus -

Opposite Conway Marsh lies Deganwy.... here was the winter quarters of Caradoc and the Ordovices and Tacitus calls it Cangorum Civitas, the city of the Cangi....Brass battle-axe heads have been found here, and Roman coins that show here the Tenth Legion, the Antoniana under Ostorius, fought against the Ordovices and Silures.

Deganwy was a wooded city, but early in the sixth century Maelgwn Gwynedd fortified it strongly...

There is no evidence Caradog was ever at Deganwy, in his flight from the newly arrived Roman army in Southern England during the A.D 50s he may possibly have got as far as Abertanat near Oswestry, but Deganwy? He also has his Welsh area tribes hopelessly mixed up, the Silures could not be at Deganwy as they occupied South Wales, while the De cangi occupied the area overlooking the River Dee, east, the River Conwy possibly being the western border with the territory of the Ordovices. Roman coins do not indicate a battle, or the again much vaunted ‘Ostorius and hiis Tenth Legion’ Antoniana? well he can only be refering to a title given to British legions in the early third century ‘antoniniana’ as it is correctly spelt was a distinction naming Emperor Caracalla, whose correct name was Antoninus. The ‘brass battle axe-heads’ had obviously been Bronze Age axeheads, a common North Wales find and often named Roman in ignorance. Though finally, he was correct about 6th century use of Deganwy Castle.

Much of Mac-Arthurs historical facts are indeed correct, it was a shame he couldn’t have researched the information for the Roman activity in the Conwy Valley as the enjoyment of reading a book about North Wales 50 years ago is spoilt by these mistakes. If a person knew nothing about the Romans then the myths would be further perpetuated, as indeed they have. The book is likely a collectors item now, but is no doubt available from specialist dealers It is worth reading as it describes a North Wales now much spoilt. The book features several images of Caerhun Hall, and a rather interesting image of St Mary’s Church, which I am obviously not at liberty to print.